hob
Jan 9, 01:45 PM
so is arn gonna post in this thread or do I have to watch the actual story for the link?
I'm not chancing it. I've made my own* HTML to do it for me :P
<html>
<head>
There are a variety of cool flowers which you can inspire you for your brand new tattoo and some of the most popular flowers are:
Flower tattoo ideas can also
Hawaiian Flower Tattoo Designs
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Tin Man#39;s Heart Tattoo design
Flower Tattoos Designs
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Flower Tattoo Ideas
Piante e fiori come Tattoo
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Water, Koi And Flower Tattoo
Flower Tattoo Ideas
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Hawaiian Flower Tattoo Designs
Flower Tattoo Design Ideas
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Hawaiian Flower Tattoo Designs
Flower Tattoo Ideas for Girls
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Orchid Flower Tattoo Design
and Flower Tattoo Design
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See this Permanent female tattoo with new art design ideas and full body tattos, that girl still make flower tattoo design in tattos studio
flower tattoo design art
Labels: Spectacular Flower
I'm not chancing it. I've made my own* HTML to do it for me :P
<html>
<head>
Ommid
Apr 25, 11:49 AM
4s ftw.
deannnnn
Apr 5, 06:49 PM
This app will be on the Top 25 list by tomorrow.
aafuss1
Sep 12, 02:04 AM
New accessories:-
Tube "skins" for the 5G iPod, with a lanyard-similar price to nano's tubes
Lanyard headphones for 5G/6th gen
IR receiver, ready for Leopard-customizable programming,like a universal remote. Same remote as iMac's
Sports kit/travel for 6th Gen
User video sharing features-upload to YouTube or a new iTMS section for used created, original vodcasts/videos
BBC TV shows on the UK store-perhaps Seven or Ten (Nine Network is MS centric), here in Australia
iPod shuffle discontinued entirely
Tube "skins" for the 5G iPod, with a lanyard-similar price to nano's tubes
Lanyard headphones for 5G/6th gen
IR receiver, ready for Leopard-customizable programming,like a universal remote. Same remote as iMac's
Sports kit/travel for 6th Gen
User video sharing features-upload to YouTube or a new iTMS section for used created, original vodcasts/videos
BBC TV shows on the UK store-perhaps Seven or Ten (Nine Network is MS centric), here in Australia
iPod shuffle discontinued entirely
more...
rdowns
Dec 13, 12:50 PM
We can all dream right? I hope to god this is true. I need better service. To me, it'd be worth the $200 termination fee...
If you really needed better service, you wouldn't be using an iPhone on ATT.
I'm getting really tired of reading "iPhone on Verizon 4G after Christmas!" rumors on here. WHy is it that every time someone says "Oh, I've heard the iPhone's coming to Verizon in January," MacRumors puts it on the front page or Page 2? Are enough people so totally obsessed with the iPhone, they pee their pants if they don't hear a Verizon iPhone rumor every day/every other day?
Where would you have MacRumors put it? Why do you think of others peeing their pants?
If you really needed better service, you wouldn't be using an iPhone on ATT.
I'm getting really tired of reading "iPhone on Verizon 4G after Christmas!" rumors on here. WHy is it that every time someone says "Oh, I've heard the iPhone's coming to Verizon in January," MacRumors puts it on the front page or Page 2? Are enough people so totally obsessed with the iPhone, they pee their pants if they don't hear a Verizon iPhone rumor every day/every other day?
Where would you have MacRumors put it? Why do you think of others peeing their pants?
dethmaShine
Apr 25, 11:52 AM
3.7" is the most appropriate phone size imo. I use htc trophy 7 which is 3.8" and it's just a bit bigger. 3.5" is a bit small though.
Anything greater than 3.8" is a giant screen. Can't imagine using one of those.
Anything greater than 3.8" is a giant screen. Can't imagine using one of those.
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Lynxpro
Oct 20, 01:40 PM
Seriously, the more I think about it, the more upset I am that they aren't offering one. I mean, what the heck are they goint to do with $10 billion? Even the most aggressive expansion and R&D strategy doesn't justify holding onto that. And it would be a great way to offset any damage from the options fiasco. And it would boost the shares 5% (at least) on announcement. They USED to pay a dividend (1987-1995). It's time to bring it back!
Oh, I dunno, perhaps acquire some more companies? You know, like TiVo - with its valuable IP - for an easy $400 million. Or pump it into R&D. Or a stake in Nintendo or Sony. Or acquire the EMI Music Group (for $1 billion) as a buffer against the other RIAA members pressuring for an increase in the iTunes Store pricing. Or finally pay off Apple Records once and for all. Those are several things Apple could do* with that $10 billion that could be more useful than artificially boosting the stock by paying out an expensive dividend to grumpy shareholders.
Heck, maybe they could go all-solar on the Apple campus like what Google is doing.
*My personal favorite idea would be for Apple to acquire Atari dirt-cheap. This would give Apple a large library of classic titles that could be ported to the iPod, not to mention giving Apple a brand that could be used to pump out OS X "compatible" computers geared towards gamers in order to boost gaming on OS X overall and a means at gunning after Dell-owned Alienware and Dell's own XPS line.
Oh, I dunno, perhaps acquire some more companies? You know, like TiVo - with its valuable IP - for an easy $400 million. Or pump it into R&D. Or a stake in Nintendo or Sony. Or acquire the EMI Music Group (for $1 billion) as a buffer against the other RIAA members pressuring for an increase in the iTunes Store pricing. Or finally pay off Apple Records once and for all. Those are several things Apple could do* with that $10 billion that could be more useful than artificially boosting the stock by paying out an expensive dividend to grumpy shareholders.
Heck, maybe they could go all-solar on the Apple campus like what Google is doing.
*My personal favorite idea would be for Apple to acquire Atari dirt-cheap. This would give Apple a large library of classic titles that could be ported to the iPod, not to mention giving Apple a brand that could be used to pump out OS X "compatible" computers geared towards gamers in order to boost gaming on OS X overall and a means at gunning after Dell-owned Alienware and Dell's own XPS line.
Jimmieboy
Sep 12, 02:59 AM
I'd rather it be at 3.00 am when I'm at home rather than say 11.00 am when I'll be at school and probably not at a comptuer. Pity we have all Pc's at school and they're all really really (bad) IBM's with the best ever (wrost) network in the world :D
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Popeye206
Apr 5, 04:44 PM
Seems silly... would be useful if you got coupons or something special out of the Ads.
Silly App.
Silly App.
iGary
Sep 12, 06:22 AM
The "Today" show just said as fact, that Apple was releasing a movie service today.
Not saying they are right, but thought it was interesting it was reported as fact.
Not saying they are right, but thought it was interesting it was reported as fact.
more...
Bistroengine
Apr 5, 04:50 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
better than being angry over someone elses opinion.
I'm not angry. There's a difference between being angry and having a civilized argument that DOESN'T involve name calling.
better than being angry over someone elses opinion.
I'm not angry. There's a difference between being angry and having a civilized argument that DOESN'T involve name calling.
DJRVDIO
Apr 29, 04:40 PM
A iMac with a touchscreen as i first stated in the post of the change in imac shippings being halted. with proof of actually touching a possible prototype earlier this year.:D 2 points.:apple:
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Anuba
Jan 12, 08:00 PM
IMO, I think the general religion is "smug, matronizing, hollier-than-thou, etc", and it breaks down into sub-regions called Apple, Microsoft, Coke, Pepsi, etc, each with their own church. I'm not a fan of the Apple people that are like that, nor am I a fan of the Microsoft people who act that way either.
I hear ya, but... Microsoft devotees? Those exist? Statistically, if I've bumped into 100 bona fide Macdroids I should've encountered about 3200 Microsofties. The only Microsoft addict I can think of at the moment is Paul Thurrott over at SuperSite for Windows, but he always struck me as more of a, well, Paul Thurrott fan who likes to talk about Paul Thurrott and put little pictures of Paul Thurrott on his Paul Thurrott page about Windows and Paul Thurrott. Most Windows users don't seem to think about Windows at all. While this may be perceived as a lack of enthusiasm for the product, I find it quite sound. Windows is just something they use, like a sidewalk, a fork or a toilet. I like having a toilet available, really appreciate what it does for me, but it's not like I've built a shrine for it or have posters of it over my bed.
I hear ya, but... Microsoft devotees? Those exist? Statistically, if I've bumped into 100 bona fide Macdroids I should've encountered about 3200 Microsofties. The only Microsoft addict I can think of at the moment is Paul Thurrott over at SuperSite for Windows, but he always struck me as more of a, well, Paul Thurrott fan who likes to talk about Paul Thurrott and put little pictures of Paul Thurrott on his Paul Thurrott page about Windows and Paul Thurrott. Most Windows users don't seem to think about Windows at all. While this may be perceived as a lack of enthusiasm for the product, I find it quite sound. Windows is just something they use, like a sidewalk, a fork or a toilet. I like having a toilet available, really appreciate what it does for me, but it's not like I've built a shrine for it or have posters of it over my bed.
MrKobie
Jan 12, 04:51 AM
blah blah blah...
You see, this is my point. Zero criticism. Steve Jobs s***s on a stage and you all gather around to share the love.
If it's an iPod first then why's it got such ****** capacity? Why's it called the iPhone? Seriously, are you a genuine music producer that's happy to walk around with just 8 gigs worth of music?
I don't carry around a 400 gig seagate hard drive - I carry around a 60 gig iPod because it does a great job. I don't have whatever phone you were talking about because I don't need a phone with a crappy mp3 player - I have an iPod. I'm guessing the price you quote is without a contract too.
This thing costs so much because Jobs knows you people will buy anything he tells you to. Seriously people, is it so bad to question things?
Revolution? Tell me when it starts.
You see, this is my point. Zero criticism. Steve Jobs s***s on a stage and you all gather around to share the love.
If it's an iPod first then why's it got such ****** capacity? Why's it called the iPhone? Seriously, are you a genuine music producer that's happy to walk around with just 8 gigs worth of music?
I don't carry around a 400 gig seagate hard drive - I carry around a 60 gig iPod because it does a great job. I don't have whatever phone you were talking about because I don't need a phone with a crappy mp3 player - I have an iPod. I'm guessing the price you quote is without a contract too.
This thing costs so much because Jobs knows you people will buy anything he tells you to. Seriously people, is it so bad to question things?
Revolution? Tell me when it starts.
more...
zephxiii
Dec 23, 08:57 AM
i usually just read these and do not post, but i decided to finally register and join the action. i know the arguement against lte in the iphone for vzw, but i say why wouldnt they? they like to be on the cutting edge dont they? as to the arguement on the original being edge not 3g, there was no 3g android when the original iphone came out now android has a significant share of the smartphone market and they are coming out with lte devices at ces for verizon. why would apple wnat to be so far behind android phones in terms of lte and 3g. i think that if apple were to launch a lte phone in june, then why not just launch it in february? what is the difference in a few months when people will be buying up lte android phones in droves after CES
Apple usually isn't cutting edge. I mean why wasn't the first iPhone 3g when there was 3G in the US and EU? That and LTE chipsets are kinda new, voice isn't working over LTE yet. It would probably be easier and cheaper to just do CDMA (which Apple is already new at). LTE also might cause a negative effect on batt. life which Apple doesn't like etc. etc.
Remember all the reasons why the first iPhone didn't have 3g? something about chipsets not mature enough (i disagree), battery life (disagree), and I thought there was something about PCB space too but dunno.
Hell we haven't seen any job ads for LTE engineers either.
So no, it most likely will not have LTE, and there has not been any valid hints that it would either.
Apple usually isn't cutting edge. I mean why wasn't the first iPhone 3g when there was 3G in the US and EU? That and LTE chipsets are kinda new, voice isn't working over LTE yet. It would probably be easier and cheaper to just do CDMA (which Apple is already new at). LTE also might cause a negative effect on batt. life which Apple doesn't like etc. etc.
Remember all the reasons why the first iPhone didn't have 3g? something about chipsets not mature enough (i disagree), battery life (disagree), and I thought there was something about PCB space too but dunno.
Hell we haven't seen any job ads for LTE engineers either.
So no, it most likely will not have LTE, and there has not been any valid hints that it would either.
ritmomundo
Mar 18, 07:35 PM
Thats the point though! If it was just comparing features or commenting then that would be fine, it just flat out rudeness and is totally unprovoked. I was just minding my own damn business and then some of these people come out with this nonsense.
Comments like, "oh you so you have an iPhone, my XYZ is better because of this", "you paid �500 for a phone you need a case to use", "you're in a closed platform that is inferior in every way", "you paid more money for a shiny apple logo". Its comments like these that are totally unprovoked which irk me.
By no means am I saying that someone can't have their own opinion, but theres no need to be rude about it. The person that posted below you pretty much summed it up.
I agree with you on this- the comments were definitely rude.
But I still don't think you get my point (and this includes the guy who posted below my previous post). That it doesn't mean that the other person is jealous of you. Its this attitude that irks me. And its this very attitude that so many "fanboys" share. Why in the world would someone be JEALOUS of you because you have a $200-$300 phone or even a $1500 computer?!? And because you think others envy you for it, you end up placing extraordinary value on everyday material things. I mean, seriously, is this what you use to define your status in society, what kind of phone you carry? Are you really that shallow and materialistic? I honestly feel pity for you.
To the other poster. You were jealous of (or "hated") those who had iphones until you got one for yourself. Now you believe that everyone around you is jealous of you.
I understand, you buy something trendy, and it makes you feel good. Thats great, I'm not arguing with that, because you should enjoy everything you have. But its this faux sense of superiority that comes with it, that makes you believe that others are envious of you because you bought this gadget. Its not like you've won the Nobel prize or even drive a Bugatti Veyron, that would make someone want what you have. No, you bought a phone. A phone that lots of people already have. A phone that my housekeeper's 11 year old son has. And any Joe Schmoe can walk into any Apple store/Walmart/Best Buy and pick one up. And when the new model comes out, you'll buy that as well, because you're chronically unsatisfied with what you have, and somehow, you feel that owning this will raise you up above the rest of society. It is people with attitudes like this (the attitude of the fanboy) that Apple capitalizes on.
Take this as a life lesson -- set your goals higher. Don't be envious of the guy with the cooler phone.
Comments like, "oh you so you have an iPhone, my XYZ is better because of this", "you paid �500 for a phone you need a case to use", "you're in a closed platform that is inferior in every way", "you paid more money for a shiny apple logo". Its comments like these that are totally unprovoked which irk me.
By no means am I saying that someone can't have their own opinion, but theres no need to be rude about it. The person that posted below you pretty much summed it up.
I agree with you on this- the comments were definitely rude.
But I still don't think you get my point (and this includes the guy who posted below my previous post). That it doesn't mean that the other person is jealous of you. Its this attitude that irks me. And its this very attitude that so many "fanboys" share. Why in the world would someone be JEALOUS of you because you have a $200-$300 phone or even a $1500 computer?!? And because you think others envy you for it, you end up placing extraordinary value on everyday material things. I mean, seriously, is this what you use to define your status in society, what kind of phone you carry? Are you really that shallow and materialistic? I honestly feel pity for you.
To the other poster. You were jealous of (or "hated") those who had iphones until you got one for yourself. Now you believe that everyone around you is jealous of you.
I understand, you buy something trendy, and it makes you feel good. Thats great, I'm not arguing with that, because you should enjoy everything you have. But its this faux sense of superiority that comes with it, that makes you believe that others are envious of you because you bought this gadget. Its not like you've won the Nobel prize or even drive a Bugatti Veyron, that would make someone want what you have. No, you bought a phone. A phone that lots of people already have. A phone that my housekeeper's 11 year old son has. And any Joe Schmoe can walk into any Apple store/Walmart/Best Buy and pick one up. And when the new model comes out, you'll buy that as well, because you're chronically unsatisfied with what you have, and somehow, you feel that owning this will raise you up above the rest of society. It is people with attitudes like this (the attitude of the fanboy) that Apple capitalizes on.
Take this as a life lesson -- set your goals higher. Don't be envious of the guy with the cooler phone.
more...
frjonah
Apr 29, 10:12 PM
This may be off-topic, but does anyone know if the recently purchased Mac products are "grandfathered in" for a Lion release? In other words, I just bought a new MacBook Pro yesterday... am I going to need to pay to upgrade to Lion?
It would, of course, be nice if the upgrade was free for recent purchasers similar to what MS did with the release of Win 7, but I'm assuming that since I can't find anything out about it, there's probably nothing to be hopeful about.
It would, of course, be nice if the upgrade was free for recent purchasers similar to what MS did with the release of Win 7, but I'm assuming that since I can't find anything out about it, there's probably nothing to be hopeful about.
Creibold
Nov 23, 05:24 PM
Wow for the 80gb iPod that like what? 3%?? What a sale.
billystlyes
May 2, 11:47 AM
"Bugs". That's so funny. Like it wasn't something indented by Big Brother, make that Apple. We truly do have a new evil empire now.
Killyp
Jan 10, 04:09 PM
The first few times was mildly amusing, but to do it multiple times is just stupid...
That looks really bad. I honestly though Gizmodo were professional reporters, but evidently not.
That looks really bad. I honestly though Gizmodo were professional reporters, but evidently not.
ThaDoggg
Apr 13, 01:33 PM
There's a use for Apple (they can sell you both the adapter and the DVI cable, at 40$ each) ;)
:D Exactly. I think not alot of people know that you can bypass the adapter altogether. Not only would it be cheaper but it would take away from the bulk.
:D Exactly. I think not alot of people know that you can bypass the adapter altogether. Not only would it be cheaper but it would take away from the bulk.
*LTD*
Mar 16, 08:36 AM
This is nonsence. If the average user was interested in just Apple, then why are Apple on a lesser market share for pretty much... everything but MP3 players? How come Android is proving more popular?
You mean all the junk Google flooded the market with in order to inflate their share because they *still* can't make anything even remotely on the level of the iPhone?
Licensing out your OS to anyone that can slam together a box and unloading product via the likes of ZTE and cheap Asian outfits (i.e., the "other" category) is hardly impressive. It's the Wintel way of dong business. Great for pumping up market share, but the profits go to the cream of the crop: Apple. For the rest it's a race to the bottom.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. THIS IS NOT AN APPLE FANSITE! Please go elsewhere if you wish to praise the mighty Apple endlessly. This site is for news and discussion based around Apple products. Not for fans to blow their load.
It's an Apple fansite. It's unavoidable. It *is* however, an unhappy experience for trolls and contrarians. You seem unhappy and exasperated in your posts. Is that maybe an indicator of something?
I'm in 2011. And I'm seeing Android beat iOS in the mobile world, and slowly creeping up in the tablet world. I'm seeing OS X being turned from a pretty advanced OS to an App riddled toy. I'm seeing Apple discontinue server services. I'm seeing Apple making silly mistakes such as clock bugs and adding social networks to media players. I'm seeing Apple still not improve MobileMe.
You're seeing Apple hit new milestones and the competition keeping up the only way they know how: price and universal licensing. ZTE releases more Android junk and HTE releases their 20th variation of the same phone and it's crickets. Meanwhile there's so much as a hint of a new iPhone and the industry and market is just buzzing with excitement. The reason is simple: when it comes to Apple, consumer anticipation is in line with expectation.
As for the rest, Apple is following the same formula they always have. It's the ideal of engineering and design: simplify, simplify, simplify. Cut, cut, cut. Then perfect what's left over.
This is what results in record sales. With profits to match.
Cheers.
You mean all the junk Google flooded the market with in order to inflate their share because they *still* can't make anything even remotely on the level of the iPhone?
Licensing out your OS to anyone that can slam together a box and unloading product via the likes of ZTE and cheap Asian outfits (i.e., the "other" category) is hardly impressive. It's the Wintel way of dong business. Great for pumping up market share, but the profits go to the cream of the crop: Apple. For the rest it's a race to the bottom.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. THIS IS NOT AN APPLE FANSITE! Please go elsewhere if you wish to praise the mighty Apple endlessly. This site is for news and discussion based around Apple products. Not for fans to blow their load.
It's an Apple fansite. It's unavoidable. It *is* however, an unhappy experience for trolls and contrarians. You seem unhappy and exasperated in your posts. Is that maybe an indicator of something?
I'm in 2011. And I'm seeing Android beat iOS in the mobile world, and slowly creeping up in the tablet world. I'm seeing OS X being turned from a pretty advanced OS to an App riddled toy. I'm seeing Apple discontinue server services. I'm seeing Apple making silly mistakes such as clock bugs and adding social networks to media players. I'm seeing Apple still not improve MobileMe.
You're seeing Apple hit new milestones and the competition keeping up the only way they know how: price and universal licensing. ZTE releases more Android junk and HTE releases their 20th variation of the same phone and it's crickets. Meanwhile there's so much as a hint of a new iPhone and the industry and market is just buzzing with excitement. The reason is simple: when it comes to Apple, consumer anticipation is in line with expectation.
As for the rest, Apple is following the same formula they always have. It's the ideal of engineering and design: simplify, simplify, simplify. Cut, cut, cut. Then perfect what's left over.
This is what results in record sales. With profits to match.
Cheers.
MacRumors
Oct 3, 12:15 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Coming as little surprise to veteran Apple watchers, IDG World Expo announced on Tuesday that Apple CEO Steve Jobs would deliver the opening keynote address (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/10/03/jobs/index.php) at Macworld Expo San Francisco. The expo will be held at San Francisco's Moscone Convention Center from January 8-12, with the keynote on Tuesday January 9th at 9 am Pacific at Moscone West.
Last year's keynote brought software updates including iLife (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110141828.shtml) and iWork (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110142618.shtml) 06 and Mac OS X 10.4.4 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110180240.shtml). Also, the first Intel Macs were announced 6 months early in the form of the iMac (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110142730.shtml) and MacBook Pro (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110142811.shtml).
While still early, this year's expectations have already begun to gain steam, with obvious expectations of iLife (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060802125923.shtml) and iWork (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060717122553.shtml) updates as well as the formal launch of the "iTV". Also possible is Apple's long-awaited phone and similarly long-awaited "true" video iPod, although both products have seen several setbacks. Lastly, with OS 10.5 Leopard's release around the corner, Jobs will undoubtedly take the opportunity to highlight some already announced (and perhaps some remaining "top-secret") features of the new operating system.
Digg This (http://digg.com/apple/Steve_Jobs_To_Keynote_Macworld_San_Francisco_2007)
Coming as little surprise to veteran Apple watchers, IDG World Expo announced on Tuesday that Apple CEO Steve Jobs would deliver the opening keynote address (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/10/03/jobs/index.php) at Macworld Expo San Francisco. The expo will be held at San Francisco's Moscone Convention Center from January 8-12, with the keynote on Tuesday January 9th at 9 am Pacific at Moscone West.
Last year's keynote brought software updates including iLife (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110141828.shtml) and iWork (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110142618.shtml) 06 and Mac OS X 10.4.4 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110180240.shtml). Also, the first Intel Macs were announced 6 months early in the form of the iMac (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110142730.shtml) and MacBook Pro (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060110142811.shtml).
While still early, this year's expectations have already begun to gain steam, with obvious expectations of iLife (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060802125923.shtml) and iWork (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060717122553.shtml) updates as well as the formal launch of the "iTV". Also possible is Apple's long-awaited phone and similarly long-awaited "true" video iPod, although both products have seen several setbacks. Lastly, with OS 10.5 Leopard's release around the corner, Jobs will undoubtedly take the opportunity to highlight some already announced (and perhaps some remaining "top-secret") features of the new operating system.
Digg This (http://digg.com/apple/Steve_Jobs_To_Keynote_Macworld_San_Francisco_2007)
Night Spring
Apr 21, 01:05 PM
That isn't it, because I can change the scores up or down (by TWO points) at will.
Hmmm, well, when *I* do it, it goes up 2 but down 1!
Hmmm, well, when *I* do it, it goes up 2 but down 1!
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